User talk:SHB2000/Archive 2021

Active discussions


Hello, TravelAroundOz! Welcome to Wikivoyage.

To help get you started contributing, we've created a tips for new contributors page, full of helpful links about policies and guidelines and style, as well as some important information on copyleft and basic stuff like how to edit a page. If you need help, check out Help, or post a message in the travellers' pub. New users are also welcome to post any questions or concerns to the arrivals lounge. If you want some practice editing, please do so on our graffiti wall. If you are familiar with Wikipedia, take a look over some of the differences here. If you want to contribute with information about the place where you live, see Wikivoyage:Welcome, locals.

Also I have blocked ThePikerWorm. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask! Gizza (roam) 03:59, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Thank you so much for your kind message and blocking User:ThePikerWorm. I'll try and create as many Australian Articles as possible. TravelAroundOz (talk) 04:01, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

@DaGizza: How do I add a map to Grand Pacific Drive? Thanks, TravelAroundOz (talk) 04:26, 26 January 2021 (UTC)

Crop tool

Welcome, and thank you for your contributions. I've cropped the banner for Golden Highway. It is actually quite easy to use the Crop Tool, so you might want to try it yourself. You copy the filename of your picture from the commons, set the ratio to 7:1, then re-size the box to select the part of the picture you want to use. A new filename is created, which you can copy before hitting the Upload button. Best regards, Ground Zero (talk) 14:01, 26 January 2021 (UTC)


Thank you for starting the Australian Tourist Drive articles. Are you planning to expand these articles? The Grand Pacific Drive article is pretty good, but the other articles don't really provide very much information for travellers. For example, they don't explain why you'd want to drive those routes. They also don't identify what there is to see along the way. I'm not not sure what these articles really do for the reader. I am hoping to see more, as I plan to do a driving trip in Australia in the coming years, and these articles, if they are expanded could be very useful to me. Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 03:03, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

Yes I am, when I get a little more time. Hope you have a good time here. TravelAroundOz (talk) 03:38, 30 January 2021 (UTC)

@Ground Zero: Just did a run through of Tourist Drive 33, so it's probably the next one going to be written. TravelAroundOz (talk) 00:44, 31 January 2021 (UTC)

Hello. Having looked at your articles, I would recommend filling out the ones you've already started before starting any more. Even the Grand Pacific Drive article doesn't have the route description, which is the most important part of an itinerary. Just look at it this way - the more time you spend on creating new stubs, the less time you've got to improve the articles you've already created. All the best, ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:09, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
Thanks TravelAroundOz. I've added a map to Grand Pacific Drive. If you've added the wikidata links to destinations in your article, the map is generated automatically when you put this in the article: {{mapframe|zoom=8}}
You can zoom in with a bigger number or zoom out with a smaller number. Keep up the good work. Ground Zero (talk) 13:05, 31 January 2021 (UTC)
@Ground Zero: Hey Ground Zero, would Tourist Drive 33 still be a stub now? TravelAroundOz (talk) 08:42, 6 February 2021 (UTC)


@DaGizza, Ground Zero:Yep, thanks. Off topic, but I've just created a template called {{Uw-vandalism2}} similar to the one on en wiki. Make for people like User:ThePikerWorm (no it's for vandals not just him). Does it need approval?
If I may: I recommend not using it. Wikivoyage policy is deny recognition. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:41, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
I see. Definitely, not like or commons TravelAroundOz (talk) 10:48, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
Nope. Although "deny recognition" is a Wikipedia guideline, too, it's not at all universally observed there. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:00, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
TAO: With fewer active editors and fewer administrators, the Wikivoyage community has found it necessary to take much faster action with vandals. The Wikipedia approach of being gentle and encouraging them to become constructive editors doesn't work here: we usually move very quickly to shut them down. We have had to deal with several very persistent vandals who are clever at exploiting the system, so we block very quickly, and hide their vandalism from view to discourage them. Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 12:59, 1 February 2021 (UTC)
I see. Definitely different from en wiki. If your probably wondering, why I'm a bit more advanced for a new user, I was an active editor a few years back but then forgot my password (and username). But IMO wikivoyage is better. TravelAroundOz (talk) 06:05, 2 February 2021 (UTC)

[Outdent] Further on templates: Before you make loads and loads of templates, please read Wikivoyage:Using MediaWiki templates#New MediaWiki template proposals:

Before a new MediaWiki template is put into general use it needs to be discussed and accepted as good or preferably best practice. Until such acceptance, new templates will be tagged {{experimental}}, and should not be added to more than one low-visibility article—so not Paris. (If other editors object to that addition, though, expect it to be removed until a consensus is reached.) If new templates fail to gain community support, they will eventually be deleted.[etc.]

And what are you doing, redirecting your user talk page? I've never seen this done before, and it strikes me as hostile to all other users and smacks of vandalism to me. I would urge you to put this back into your standard user talk page. Ikan Kekek (talk) 11:05, 12 February 2021 (UTC)


Hey TAO, I restored my edits on this article. Wikivoyage, like other travel guides, tries to use a consistent style for formatting times and dates, phone numbers, prices, and do on. It makes it easier for the reader to find information quickly. Using a variety of styles, as the article did before I cleaned it up, makes it looks sloppy and unreliable. Wv:tdf sets out one style for countries that use the 24-hour clock (e.g., 09:00-17:00), and one style for countries that use the 12-hour clock (e.g., 9AM-5PM). A destination article should never use both formats, as this one did — it's more confusing for the reader. The talk page for each country article identifies the style we use for that country's articles in a box at the top of the page.

If you disagree with Wikivoyage style, or with the style selected for any country, you can propose changes on the appropriate talk page.

Also, the edits you undid included a bunch of capitalisation, grammar, punctuation and formatting corrections. I have restored the lot of them. Regards, Ground Zero (talk) 01:59, 7 February 2021 (UTC)

Whoops, sorry about that. But which page do I go to? TravelAroundOz (talk) 02:05, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
As well as that, would Tourist Drive 33 still be a stub now or an outline. TravelAroundOz (talk) 02:06, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
You restored a mix of formatting styles, so I'm not really clear what it is you are trying to do. If you disagree with Wikivoyage time formatting, raise it at Wikivoyage talk:Time and date formats. If you think we should use the 24-hour format in Aus articles, raise it at Talk:Australia. Ground Zero (talk) 03:05, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Yes, I'm saying we should use 24hr time in Aussie articles. But would TD33 be a stub now? TravelAroundOz (talk) 03:07, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
I have upgraded Torist Drive 33 to "outline". I think it would be "usable" if each of the places under "Drive" had a short description. Ground Zero (talk) 03:09, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
Cheers mate, I'll do it in the next 3 days. TravelAroundOz (talk) 03:11, 7 February 2021 (UTC)
@Ground Zero: All of the places under "drive" now have a description and as such, would it now be usable. TravelAroundOz (talk) 08:33, 7 February 2021 (UTC)


Hi again.

Thanks for your efforts with sending welcome messages, but would you mind leaving that to other users until you get more experience editing? Part of the purpose of such messages is for the new user to have someone to contact if they need any help but don't know how to use or aren't aware other resources like article talk pages, the Pub, Arrivals lounge etc. In this event, it's best for the person who helps them to have at least a few months' experience, otherwise it's likely they won't know the best way to help. There's also no point welcoming users with no editing history on Wikivoyage; we normally wait until either a person has made several edits or until one of their edits requires discussion. You can see a user's contributions by looking in the left sidebar on their user page, or else by searching Special/Contribution:username.

Finally, remember that whenever you post on a talk page, it's important to sign your post by typing four tildes in a row like this: ~~~~. You'd think after 20 years, the Wikimedia Foundation would have devised a way for talk page posts to sign automatically on desktop mode, but unfortunately they haven't.

Any questions, don't hesitate to ask. The tourist drives are coming together nicely.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:21, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Sure mate TravelAroundOz (talk) 11:24, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Also hard to believe 20 years. TravelAroundOz (talk) 11:28, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Ikr. I don't think I was aware of Wikipedia till about 2006.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:32, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Also, I'm a bit confused on what to name Alternate Tourist Drive 24. Should I put "(Queensland)" in brackets or not? Not many people will know where it is, unlike 33.
If there's another road called Alternate Tourist Drive 24 somewhere else in the world, then yes add "(Queensland)". But if not, it doesn't matter how obscure the route is, it doesn't need disambiguating.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:56, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
The thing is, I don't know. Tourist Drives are so poorly maintained in all states except NSW, QLD and WA. One thing for sure is that all WA tourist drives are covered on enwiki. Nothing about NSW or QLD. I also don't know about anything in Victoria as it's so poorly maintained that even the signs lead to nowhere there. TravelAroundOz (talk) 12:05, 8 February 2021 (UTC)
Fair enough. In that case, maybe just assume there isn't another one, as it's quite a specific name. If in the future someone wants to create an article for another unknown "Alternate Tourist Drive 24", a disambiguation can be created then.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:08, 8 February 2021 (UTC)

Aggressive archiving

Why are you archiving a 7-day-old post in Talk:Sydney? Ikan Kekek (talk) 16:38, 14 February 2021 (UTC)

Well Ikan, it isn't a post to question but to just tell you guys about the change. TravelAroundOz (talk) 07:50, 15 February 2021 (UTC)
Didn't I reply to this? 7 days is way too short to even expect people to see a post. I urge you to wait at least 2-3 months before archiving anything. Ikan Kekek (talk) 22:01, 15 February 2021 (UTC)


Thanks for the Aussie barn compass. Australia is high on my list of places to visit when the world gets back to normal. If you haven't seen this already, I think it would be useful for you: Wikivoyage:Itinerary status shows the criteria for upgrading itinerary articles from stub to outline to usable to guide. Happy editing. Ground Zero (talk) 14:22, 15 February 2021 (UTC)

Thanks mate. I'll just have to wait till we get the Traveloca thing sorted out. TravelAroundOz (talk) 02:50, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
@Ground Zero: Additionally, are there too much images on Tourist Drive 33 or is it just fine. TravelAroundOz (talk) 04:11, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
Wikivoyage:Image policy says:
"Short articles (less than 3,000 bytes) should usually have no more than 1–2 images, including a map. For longer articles, 1 image per screen (1,000–2,000 bytes) is generally adequate."
You're easily within that guideline. I think it looks fine. Ground Zero (talk) 13:03, 16 February 2021 (UTC)
@Ground Zero: I guess I can have 18ish images since the article is 18k+ bytes. Cheers though, TravelAroundOz (talk) 11:27, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
I'd read that as 9-18, but 18 sounds like a lot of images. I don't think that would get advisable. We don't want our articles to burn through readers' mobile data. Ground Zero (talk) 12:17, 18 February 2021 (UTC)
I don't think I even have 12 images. TravelAroundOz (talk) 20:18, 18 February 2021 (UTC)

There are 9 including the banner 08:44, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Might add a tenth one. SHB2000 (talk) - The year of the 2000 Sydney Olympics 10:02, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Name change

Hey, TravelAroundOz (or SHB2000 now). Was just checking w:WP:PERM over at Wikipedia and a little surprised to see you there instead of here. I just noticed the name change -- any particular reason? Just friendly curiosity, hope you're doing well and it wasn't about anything bad. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 07:54, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

So it doesn't get confused with this person, in this case who I amn't. SHB2000 (talk) 08:33, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
And now I edit both WP and WV. SHB2000 (talk) 08:33, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
Are you ever planning to change your name back? 09:04, 13 March 2021 (UTC)
Nope. SHB2000 (talk) 09:06, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

April Fools suggestions page

Hi, I pinged you to this page, however since you changed your name literally less than an hour ago, I don't know if the ping reached you. 08:42, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Hi, I did receive the ping but I was editing Tourist Drive 30 at the time SHB2000 (talk) 08:45, 13 March 2021 (UTC)

Tourist Drive 1

Hi, SHB2000. It looks like I created a problem, since I didn't wait long enough to hear from you about whether you were going to create more Tourist Drive 1 articles and moved the one in Central New South Wales to just Tourist Drive 1. There are a bunch of roads with the same name in different Australian states, then? It looks like I need to revert that name change and just spell out New South Wales because we don't use abbreviations for states on this site as a matter of style and because we don't expect people from outside a given country to know such abbreviations. Sorry about that. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:49, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

I see you fixed the problem. Thanks, and sorry again for ignorantly changing the name. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:51, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Though thanks for alerting me about the name issue. By the way, there are 5 Tourist Drive 1's I know of, with three in New South Wales SHB2000 (talk) 06:53, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
I guess that's somewhat similar to how we could have the same numbering for an interstate highway, a federal road, a state road and a county road in any given U.S. state. We don't have roads specifically called tourist roads, though, as far as I know. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:58, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
No, that's an Aussie thing. Infact, Australia still has 8 different numbering systems similar to the US system


  • National Highway
  • National Route
  • State Route
  • Metroads (even though there are only two remaining)
  • Alphanumeric (similar to Europe)
  • National Highway Alphanumeric
  • Tourist Drive/Ways
  • Detour route (note that whoever edited w:Highways in Australia must've assumed its an alphanumeric even though it really isn't.

But surely there'd be strategic tourist routes in the US (unsigned, just information maps) SHB2000 (talk) 09:35, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

There are scenic routes, though they're usually numbered like any other and just marked with extra dotted lines on paper maps, for anyone who still uses those. I can think of one private road that has beautiful scenery and charges a toll, though. It's called the 17-Mile Drive and it's in Carmel, California. Ikan Kekek (talk) 09:45, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Why charge a toll on a scenic road??? SHB2000 (talk) 10:10, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Because they can. :-) But I mentioned it because that's exceptional. Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:07, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Man, I should stop complaining about the toll in Toowoomba, a regional city. This is just a road while that's a motorway ;) SHB2000 (talk) 20:12, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

An award for you

  The Wikivoyage Barncompass
For your general contributions to Wikivoyage, and specifically for your work on Australia articles. We're glad you're here, mate. Ground Zero (talk) 12:39, 18 March 2021 (UTC)
Cheers mate, and yes I am hoping to create an article for every major tourist drive in Australia. Just passed my 1000th edit :) SHB2000 (talk) 20:13, 18 March 2021 (UTC)

Road travel between Adelaide/Melbourne -- itinerary potential?

Dropping in a word on your talk page, because you definitely have a lot more experience with the road articles than me. Do you think there's any solid potential for an article on overland travel (possibly including the bus and train routes as well as driving) between Adelaide-Melbourne, and would you be interested in helping out on one? I know it's a bit outside your usual geographic remit, but it's a trip I make regularly and I've been floating the idea of writing on it. Some of the closer-together capital cities, especially for ones outside the southeast bubble, so in my experience road trips and train/bus travel is fairly common. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 05:39, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

On a side note I'm actually terrible with roads, and my knowledge to contributing is past experience on those roads on those guides or travel guides/brochures. But Yes, we could make Adelaide-Melbourne by car. SHB2000 (talk) 05:44, 19 March 2021 (UTC)
Also a reason why I rarely edit WA/NT/Tas related itinerary articles SHB2000 (talk) 05:49, 19 March 2021 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── @Vaticidalprophet: also note I'm happy to edit outside of NSW like with Strzelecki Track. SHB2000 (talk) 11:22, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

"Do not be an irresponsible person"

I don't think we should include that scolding tone in any warnings. IMO, let's just give readers information and trust that they won't be idiots, or that if they are, scolding all readers will if anything produce the opposite effect in them. Ikan Kekek (talk) 04:50, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Sure, will fix it up. SHB2000 (talk) 05:18, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:25, 21 March 2021 (UTC)


G'day SHB, thankfully we haven't been hit that hard. But I appreciate you asking. There have been a few small leaks of water that have gotten inside the home and the back and frontyards are drenched. Hope you are staying safe and dry. What a crazy time the last couple of years have been. First the bushfires/drought, then Covid and now the floods (and of course Covid still isn't over yet). Gizza (roam) 07:03, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Oy! I didn't realize you were in Australia. I wish you the best. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:15, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
Agree. First the strawberries, then the drought, then bushfires, then COVID now floods. SHB2000 (talk) 07:19, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
I was fortunate enough to get this, this and this SHB2000 (talk) 07:21, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
@Ikan Kekek:, Yes, DaGizza is the only other editor I know who lives in Sydney. SHB2000 (talk) 08:15, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

Tech News: 2021-12

16:53, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

An award for you

  The Aussie Wikivoyage Barncompass
Thanks for your great work on improving Australian travel pages, especially driving articles. Hope Tourist Drive 33 gets star status soon! --LivelyRatification (talk) 02:58, 23 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks so much. I wish the same for Stratford (Victoria) as well. SHB2000 (talk) 05:16, 23 March 2021 (UTC)

Outline vs. stub

Hi. Outlines have a template, regardless of whether they have content. Stubs don't have a template. Ikan Kekek (talk) 07:47, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

Okay, I'll take that for next time as I was unaware of that. It's rather weird how it works as generally outlines are meant to give more information to the reader but it's weird when it comes to Great Alpine Road (incomplete) and these useless articles written by User:EnglishEP (translated) haven't even been modified. Anyway, have a good day and stay safe. Thanks, SHB2000 (talk) 08:34, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
You too. How's the flooding now? Ikan Kekek (talk) 17:31, 24 March 2021 (UTC)
All gone, was a 32˚ day yesterday. SHB2000 (talk) 20:14, 24 March 2021 (UTC)

This Month in Education: March 2021

This Month in Education

Volume 10 • Issue 3 • March 2021


In This Issuse


Hi Test203041 (talk) 08:54, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

I knew you were going to do this. SHB2000 (talk) 08:57, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #461

Tech News: 2021-13

17:31, 29 March 2021 (UTC)

Usernames followed by 2-3 numbers

These are socks of the Telstra guy at least 80% of the time, so best not to waste time posting to their user talk pages. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:26, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

That Brendon John Williams guy? Out of curiosity, how'd you find out his real name? SHB2000 (talk) 10:28, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
Wait never mind, his original usernane was it. SHB2000 (talk) 10:31, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek:, would Slimmil689 be one? SHB2000 (talk) 10:48, 31 March 2021 (UTC)

Yep. Ikan Kekek (talk) 15:43, 31 March 2021 (UTC)
I see it's a vandalism only account. SHB2000 (talk) 03:32, 1 April 2021 (UTC)

Your revert

You reverted my edit to Innamincka with the edit comment "exception. see the pub for discussion". I don't see it over there. Please explain. --FredTC (talk) 22:21, 3 April 2021 (UTC)

See [10] SHB2000 (talk) 05:29, 4 April 2021 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #462

Welcoming new users again

Again, thanks for participating in this. However, Rodolfo2083‎‎ has no contributions, and that username suggests a likelihood of possibly being another sockpuppet of the Telstra guy. I'd suggest waiting a least a couple of posts before welcoming anyone. Ikan Kekek (talk) 23:02, 8 April 2021 (UTC)

Sorry for the late response, I've been out since Tuesday and now have my space key fixed. Thought the telstra guy's sock's are only 2-3 digits. Though I suppose he'd slowly start to change his editing habits/usernames. SHB2000 (talk) 09:53, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
But in any case, there's generally no point in welcoming someone who hasn't even made a single edit. The only time I do that is when their username suggests they are tour agency owners or something, and even then, preemptive advice not to tout or violate other Wikivoyage guidelines is almost never successful. Ikan Kekek (talk) 19:31, 9 April 2021 (UTC)


Hi there. Wikivoyage:Naming_conventions#Disambiguation states that "one place is so much more famous than others with the same name" shouldn't be disambiguated. I would say this is probably the case with Vaucluse (France), especially since Vaucluse (New South Wales) doesn't even have an article, and possibly never will, given that it's covered by Sydney/Eastern Suburbs. I'd therefore like to revert your page move.

If there's a chance that the Vaucluse in NSW will get an article one day, or if you're planning to make one, then the disambig page can be transferred to Vaucluse (disambiguation). What do you think? --ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:40, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Sure. Vaucluse (New South Wales) is unlikely to get its own page for the next four years. Feel free to revert the move. SHB2000 (talk) 12:43, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
@ThunderingTyphoons!:, somethings preventing me from moving Vaucluse (France) to Vaucluse. SHB2000 (talk) 12:48, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
No worries, I've done it. The Vaucluse page needed to be deleted in order to overwrite it.
Is there some significance to "the next four years" with regard to Vaucluse, NSW?--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 12:54, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
The Eastern Suburbs will probably be too big for its own article and need to be broken down into smaller sections. La Perouse (can NSW have more french names) is sort of an exception as you can't fit all of what's there into the Eastern Suburbs article. SHB2000 (talk) 12:56, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Looking at a Greater Sydney rail map (yes, I collect train maps of places I'll probably never visit, don't judge me), I'm always struck by the number of place names borrowed seemingly at random from unremarkable towns in and around London - Bexley, Stanmore, Croydon, Lewisham, Richmond... - and wonder how they stack up against the originals.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 13:26, 9 April 2021 (UTC)
Agree, it's only the last 20 years where names have been changing to indigenous names. Some hard to pronounce ones as well like Oodnadatta, Kununurra, Wooloomooloo, Kiwirakurra. There's also a bunch of other UK names in NSW like Liverpool, Cardiff (yes, when someone says cardiff, i think of cardiff, nsw and not cardiff, wales), Gloucester, Forster, Goulburn, Griffith, Camden (the origin of our Griffith is from Burley Griffin and not from the UK Griffith), Bathurst, Windsor and to say, there's a lot more than what I've mentioned. SHB2000 (talk) 21:45, 9 April 2021 (UTC)

Tech News: 2021-14

19:41, 5 April 2021 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek, Mx. Granger,, Vaticidalprophet, ThunderingTyphoons!, Ground Zero, LPfi: - Re. the pub and the dates, The tech update that I received a week ago. SHB2000 (talk) 23:17, 10 April 2021 (UTC)

That’s not what I meant. What I meant was whenever I update a template, it replaces subst:#time:Y-m-d with 2021-04-11 or whatever the date is. 16:19, 11 April 2021 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: March 2021

Read this edition in fullSingle-page

To assist with preparing the newsletter, please visit the newsroom. Past editions may be viewed here.

A barncompass for you!

  The Aussie Wikivoyage Barncompass
This Barncompass is to show appreciation for your great work on Aussie articles on Wikivoyage. -- 11:46, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
You gave me one so I thought I’d return the favour. :) 11:46, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
Thanks at lot. Really appreciate this. My third barncompass. SHB2000 (talk) 11:48, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
You’re welcome! Enjoy the rest of your day! 11:51, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, I better go and sleep soon. It's currently 21.53 here. SHB2000 (talk) 11:53, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
Oh, ok. Goodnight then! 11:56, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
And good afternoon to you. Been waiting 3 mins to post this :) SHB2000 (talk) 12:00, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
Until I realised just now that daylight savings has begun. SHB2000 (talk) 12:00, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
Yeah, it’s 13:05 now. 12:05, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
Our clocks have just gone back an hour now :) SHB2000 (talk) 12:06, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

──────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────────── I thought you were going to bed now. 13:00, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

I'm a person who doesn't go to bed til 2300h. SHB2000 (talk) 00:17, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
I see. 07:48, 13 April 2021 (UTC)
or even 2330h. SHB2000 (talk) 07:49, 13 April 2021 (UTC)


You forgot to change the date. I changed it for you. 13:18, 12 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks, I’m not used to editing on mobile so it’s easy to forget. Take care SHB2000 (talk) 13:27, 12 April 2021 (UTC)
Thank you! 07:46, 13 April 2021 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #463

2 maps in an article?

Swept in from the pub

Hi everyone,

This might seem very odd but am I allowed to have two maps in Innamincka. One's for the 1.5km long town centre and the other is for the vast Innamincka. The problem is, they're either too close to each other or too far. Solution: A controversial request for two maps.

Is it okay?

Thanks, SHB2000 (talk) 04:46, 28 March 2021 (UTC)

Since these are dynamic maps, that's probably not necessary. You can pick a kind of compromise zoom level and let readers click the map to zoom in or out for more location info. Ikan Kekek (talk) 20:18, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
@SHB2000, have you considered a rectangular map? WhatamIdoing (talk) 21:31, 28 March 2021 (UTC)
@WhatamIdoing:, how do you do that? SHB2000 (talk) 05:28, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
Like this, if you want the default/auto-zoom approach. Since you have one marker in a different town, you may want to put a location and/or zoom level back in. WhatamIdoing (talk) 16:48, 29 March 2021 (UTC)
I feel like in this case a "compromise" in zoom level would leave both purposes unsatisfied. I use two maps where necessary; see, for example, Niagara Falls (New York). Powers (talk) 02:20, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
I would probably add the latitude, longitude and zoom parameters for the mapframe to center map and zoom in on the main area. You can use the width and height parameters to make the dynamic map into a rectangle if so desired. Two maps are probably acceptable but I think one map would suffice. Best wishes! -- Matroc (talk) 05:20, 30 March 2021 (UTC)
Thanks guys, I've decided to remove the second map and incorporate both Ikan Kekek's and WhatamIdoing's ideas. Considering that for it to be a proper guide, it'll need 4 maps. (Town centre, greater Innamincka, Birdsville and Moomba) SHB2000 (talk) 09:09, 30 March 2021 (UTC)

Facebook pages

I agree with your edit here, but only because the hotel has its own website. If a business has no website but has its own Facebook page, we link it. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:38, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

@Ikan Kekek: I've done that before. Can't remember which article though. By the way, done wikivoyage have it's own insta page? SHB2000 (talk) 05:46, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
I doubt it. Commons is the Wiki with the photos, but I'm guessing there's no Wiki with an Instagram page. I could be wrong, though. Ikan Kekek (talk) 06:42, 14 April 2021 (UTC)
Checking it, there's only bn and ru pages. Plus wikitravel. SHB2000 (talk) 06:44, 14 April 2021 (UTC)

Unilateral policy changes

Making a policy change without discussion and implementing it across a bunch of articles is always a bad idea. I'm sure that you believe you're right — and you very well may be right — but the approach you've taken does kind of say to everyone else that any views they may have on the subject are irrelevant, which leaves a bad taste.

I know you mean well, and you are a very constructive contributor. That is why I am addressing this to you on your talk page. Ground Zero (talk) 00:14, 15 April 2021 (UTC)


When using text from Wikipedia, I've been following the advice at Wikivoyage:Cooperating with Wikipedia, I.d.,

"When copying text from Wikipedia (or any other CC-SA site) you must provide attribution to the original authors. Attribution is generally provided by pasting the URL for the source article version (see below) into the "edit summary" box, and/or you can use the Wikipedia template."

I've been pasting the URL into the edit summary box. The way I read the passage above, this is sufficient. Also using the Wikipedia template is fine to do, but I don't think it is necessary under the policy. Do you disagree? Ground Zero (talk) 01:02, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Just incase. I mean, there's no harm in not doing it but I'll do it otherwise what's the purpose of the template. SHB2000 (talk) 05:09, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Admins' watchlists

What do you mean by "'I would expect admins, at least, to monitor this page.' - But no, only a non admin is monitoring this page"? The page is on the list of pages admins are explicitly asked to monitor, and several admins have commented on the thread above your comment. I haven't commented in the thread as I have little to say for the moment. (Except that: You can disable e-mail from named users, if that's any help.) –LPfi (talk) 06:18, 16 April 2021 (UTC)

Very sorry about ignoring the rest of all the admins. As User:Ikan Kekek said, it's frustrating being constantly attacked. Btw, thanks for the suggestion. I only haven't disabled it incase if User: chooses to create an account one day. SHB2000 (talk) 06:45, 16 April 2021 (UTC)
I think there is a value in being able to send and receive e-mail. The preferences item I suggested allows disabling e-mail from a certain user (or a list of users). It does not help against somebody creating new accounts all the time, and non-logged in users cannot send wikimail anyhow. –LPfi (talk) 05:50, 17 April 2021 (UTC)
Additionally, I'm not going to disable it because for the 98% of good faith users, I'm not going to ruin it for them because of the 2% minority that ruins and destroys Wikimedia Projects. By disabling it, I'm just letting the vandal/harasser win. SHB2000 (talk) 12:43, 17 April 2021 (UTC)

Edit summary

I think your edit summary here was a bit careless, as you shouldn't want everybody watching latest changes reading that. No problem this time, and I see you changed it for the next test. –LPfi (talk) 08:21, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Yeah, I didn't want someone to think that it was someone impersonating me. SHB2000 (talk) 08:24, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
OK, but telling what you were testing, when what is in there is a secret, is problematic. –LPfi (talk) 08:31, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
Okay. But why is it a secret? SHB2000 (talk) 08:36, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
If it weren't, they wouldn't be hidden for non-admins. They are never perfect, and if you know what they catch, they are easier to evade. –LPfi (talk) 08:56, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
I see. And re reading this, I don't know how I'd've reacted when I saw this in RC. SHB2000 (talk | contribs) 08:58, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
And out of curiosity, do you know what had wrote on my talk page? SHB2000 (talk | contribs) 09:00, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
This was also careless and not very kind. Please remember that everyone deserves respect. If everything Antandrus claimed is true, then through no fault of their own mental illness has completely ruined that person's life and has also caused them to inflict a lot of pain on other people.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 11:06, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
Yes. That was the prime concern of a friend of mine when I told about the situation. She was worried that he doesn't get the support he would need from the local society – which probably is true, but something we cannot do much about. There are things we have to do here for our readers and to protect ourselves, but let's try not to make it any worse than needed.
SHB2000: I can read what he wrote, at least one message. I suppose you got more or less the same message by e-mail.
LPfi (talk) 18:24, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
Well, in his emails, he said he doesn't have mental health issues, (email me for a copy of that email) and the revision got deleted so I can't access it. SHB2000 (talk | contribs) 22:07, 18 April 2021 (UTC)
Plus, "to have no life" is a common Australian slang used for someone who frequently does stupid things. I should reduce my use of slangs. SHB2000 (talk | contribs) 22:09, 18 April 2021 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #464

Is it okay if I create two armchair travel articles?

Swept in from the pub

Hi everyone,

Just wanted to ask your opinion on creating two armchair articles. Strzelecki Track and Birdsville Track. They can be physically accessed but with one vehicle every 2-3 days. Just wanting to ask whether I should create it based on if a traveller goes and explores it or for armchair travel?

Cheers, SHB2000 (talk) 11:34, 21 March 2021 (UTC)

I'd say cover these as itineraries, but what would be the difference in your coverage if it was meant solely for vicarious reading, which is what I think you mean by armchair travel, than if you simply cover it as a practical itinerary? Ikan Kekek (talk) 18:57, 21 March 2021 (UTC)
I'd generally put a lot of humour in armchair travel and be a bit more serious in practical itineraries. SHB2000 (talk) 05:18, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
You mean kind of like a joke article? A bit of humor is fine, but if the trip is doable, I'd say don't make a joke of it. You might look at some of the articles linked in Next-to-impossible destinations. Ikan Kekek (talk) 05:22, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
I might use Ashmore and Cartier Islands as a guide. It is doable, it's just that I don't think anyone will actually use this alone. SHB2000 (talk) 10:57, 22 March 2021 (UTC)
I think your article is looking good so far. Maybe the Ashmore and Cartier Island article reads like a joke because it's not written very well and has no information about why someone might want to visit, talks about what isn't there instead of what is, and is even a bit fuzzy on basic accessibility (It would really benefit from adding information provided by the Australian government. I'd suggest not trying to emulate that article. The Track and the few locations along it seem to have some history, so it shouldn't be too fill out as a legitimate travel article. ChubbyWimbus (talk) 14:41, 22 March 2021 (UTC)

Tech News: 2021-16

16:49, 19 April 2021 (UTC)

Page protection

I've semi-protected your page (autoconfirmed only) for one week. Please let me know if you'd like it to be lifted before the week has expired, but I'd be reluctant to do so for the remainder of today.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 10:25, 20 April 2021 (UTC)

Thanks for protecting my talk page. Hopefully this guy shall stop (changed my email address as well) but this doesn't seem like its going to stop for another week. I really don't see why a non autoconfirmed user would have a reason to post here apart from User: May also want to protect Vat's talk page as well. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 10:28, 20 April 2021 (UTC)


  Sweepers' Club Membership Certificate
Thanks for helping sweep old conversations off to relevant talk pages. Like housework, it's often best to do a little every day or every week, but we'd let the page get out of hand. Thanks for helping with the "spring cleaning". WhatamIdoing (talk) 18:38, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
Thanks a lot. This makes my day :) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 21:21, 20 April 2021 (UTC)
@WhatamIdoing:, just did my autumn clean (but cleared the same amount of stuff as a spring clean). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 05:34, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
Is it called "autumn cleaning" in Australia? I've only ever heard "spring cleaning", and I didn't know whether the concept translated. WhatamIdoing (talk) 19:16, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
Well, it's autumn here. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 21:05, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

Your comment

See User talk:SHB2000/Archive 2021#Edit summary about discussing certain ideas. –LPfi (talk) 09:55, 21 April 2021 (UTC)

I understand you'd like to be part of the solution, but certain things lose their magic when called by name. –LPfi (talk) 09:56, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
Anyway, I'll be stepping back from janitorial work for another 2 weeks. (Have other things - non wiki related to do) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 11:50, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
OK. Thanks for what you have been (and hopefully will be) doing. Just best to keep some things to oneself, or trusted channels. The less those whose edits we don't want know about how we find them, the better. And some of them may be following any on-wiki discussion. –LPfi (talk) 12:47, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
Also, I'll be adding a button similar to the trout button on wikipedia for my overuse of slangs (and other stuff too). SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 12:49, 21 April 2021 (UTC)
Please don't talk in public about how our abuse filters work. The less trolls, vandals etc. know about them, the better, and whenever you say anything about the filters in public, some of them may be listening. I think this is the third time I am trying to tell this to you. If there is something unclear about it, do ask, but i don't want to have to keep saying this. –LPfi (talk) 22:08, 22 April 2021 (UTC)

The Signpost: 25 April 2021

News, reports and features from the English Wikipedia's weekly journal about Wikipedia and Wikimedia

This Month in Education: April 2021

This Month in Education

Volume 10 • Issue 4 • April 2021


In This Issuse

This Month in Education: April 2021

This Month in Education

Volume 10 • Issue 4 • April 2021


In This Issuse

Wikidata weekly summary #465

Tech News: 2021-17

21:25, 26 April 2021 (UTC)


I hope your break goes well. I look forward to seeing you again later in May. Ground Zero (talk) 11:04, 24 April 2021 (UTC)

@Ground Zero:, Thanks for the message. While I did look at this message before I left, I didn't have time to respond to it. I'm now back, a few days early, seeing the internet almost after a week. Almost forgot how to use my computer and it certainly feels different using it again. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 08:13, 1 May 2021 (UTC)

Towns vs. Cities in the UK

The definition of a city is weird in the UK. It is a large town, sometimes with a cathedral. However there is also the City of London, built on the site of the Roman town Londinium. So it is normally one of three things:

  • A town with a large cathedral
  • An old Roman town
  • A large town

Hope this helps 13:19, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

It aye confusin'. The definition of town is weird here (i.e. Adelaide being called a country town) but those have now been only used colloquially. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 13:21, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

You've been whacked with a wet trout for using too much Aussie slang

Don't take this too seriously. Someone just wants to let you know you've been using too much slang 13:22, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

I'm assuming "it aye confusin" is Aussie slang. :) 13:23, 3 May 2021 (UTC)
Yes it is. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 13:24, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Tech News: 2021-18

15:43, 3 May 2021 (UTC)

Wikidata weekly summary #466

Thank you for ...

...nominating me for administrator. I just looked around for a place to leave some kind of closing statement, but maybe there isn't one? Maybe here. I promise not to break anything. :) I have a hunch there may be a bit less trouble now; the obsessed individual tends to go where he is less likely to be recognized. But I will help with any tasks where I can assist. -- Anyway, I just got back from a hiking trip and am about to go on another one. Will look at adminny stuff in a bit. All the best -- Antandrus (talk) 14:25, 5 May 2021 (UTC)

  • @Antandrus: It looks like Ikan Kekek changed your status. Congratulations, and welcome aboard. Ground Zero (talk) 15:23, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
    • Yes, welcome! –LPfi (talk) 20:07, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
Thanks, Wikivoyage will greatly benefit. And I can tell our californian articles will improve. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 21:23, 5 May 2021 (UTC)
By the way, do you hike out at Arizona or the US east coast or somewhere not in North America? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:31, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
And finally, enjoy your time being an admin here. Could you also protect my enwiki talk page? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:35, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
@Antandrus:, and while now GRP will start calling me a sockpuppet, it's all worth it. You definitely deserve to be an admin, and I hope everything's going good for you in California. Is mandatory masks a thing there? SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 11:26, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
Indoors, yes - but it's now pretty much optional outdoors. I've been climbing in the mountains a lot and people aren't wearing masks much. Most of us are vaccinated now. I just bought my first plane tickets since before the pandemic. Time to get out again.
FYI, there's another LTA active - w:WP:LTA/Wikinger - he imitates GRP all the time. Often when GRP is being disruptive, Wikinger shows up to make it worse if he can. There are a couple reliable ways to tell them apart that I won't divulge publicly, but it doesn't really matter since they're both WMF-banned. "All vandals are the same vandal" can be kind of a useful philosophy. Antandrus (talk) 14:29, 6 May 2021 (UTC)
I'm well aware of Wikinger, although he's not on WV from what I can tell. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 21:16, 6 May 2021 (UTC)

Wearing pink pants

Huh? I'm guessing this is one of those dead letters that's still on the books but never enforced. If so, we shouldn't include it in a serious article. Ikan Kekek (talk) 21:34, 9 May 2021 (UTC)

I agree. If it's is intended as an amusing side note, it should be identified as such, or left out. Ground Zero (talk) 22:01, 9 May 2021 (UTC)
It was an old law but yes it was enforced, I learnt it when I was studying law. Still a law that's still in force today but no one really pings or is nitpicky on this law anymore. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 06:18, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

Tech News: 2021-19

15:10, 10 May 2021 (UTC)

This Month in GLAM: April 2021

Read this edition in fullSingle-page

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Travel Rant..

Thanks for the additions..

You plan to look over some of the pre-existing ones as well? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:05, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Already looked at them. A few quotes that my mates have said when going to the outback. Classic Aussie - especially with the unnecessary f bombs in them. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 08:07, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
I've also been told by some Australian visitors in London to NEVER order certain 'export' brands of alcoholic beverage if I ever visit Sydney. Perhaps this is something that could be looked into as advice for some articles? ShakespeareFan00 (talk) 08:24, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
No one in my family drinks so I don't know about alcoholic beverages. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 08:26, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
"I've also been told by some Australian visitors in London to NEVER order certain 'export' brands of alcoholic beverage if I ever visit Sydney" -- would that be Foster's? Sounds like it might be. It's what the rest of the world thinks Australians drink, not what we actually do. Vaticidalprophet (talk) 08:42, 12 May 2021 (UTC)
possibly, although everyone in sydney (that i know) drinks vittoria beer, corona, or a champagne (more females) SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 08:45, 12 May 2021 (UTC)

Star Wars tourism

Why did you revert my edit. By doing so, information that was correct is now incorrect. The edit was not done by Brendan John Williams, but it was the only edit on Wikivoyage by Folley5851. Asked by: FredTC (talk) 06:52, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Brendo creates sock accounts - and 99% of the accounts ending in 2-4 numbers are his. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 06:53, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
By the way, Brendan John Williams is just Telstra - which I call brendo. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 06:54, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
But why do you make correct information incorrect??? --FredTC (talk) 06:57, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
Block evasion is block evasion: but this is more ban evasion SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 07:00, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
A bit of discretion is needed when dealing with the Telstra guy. Most of his edits are very poor quality or factually incorrect and should be reverted on sight, but on the odd occasion he contributes something positive to an article, it's better to keep it, particularly when a third user (in this case FredTC) has confirmed the edit was good. Whether we revert or not has no effect on Telstra's behaviour, so we might as well benefit from his occasional moments of brilliance.--ThunderingTyphoons! (talk) 09:05, 14 May 2021 (UTC)
The easy way I use to identify his edits non-username related is it almost certainly is just an added listing. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 10:13, 14 May 2021 (UTC)

Tech News: 2021-20

13:50, 17 May 2021 (UTC)

Growth Newsletter #18

15:23, 17 May 2021 (UTC)


I am not too enthusiastic over your welcoming Frigley after one edit about Sharpeville, which in lights of the Sharpeville massacre seems rather, uhm, biased. I think one should wait with welcoming until a user has made clearly good faith edits. –LPfi (talk) 12:35, 18 May 2021 (UTC)

Sure, I'll keep that in mind. Forgot NPOV isn't a thing here. SHB2000 (talk | contribs | en.wikipedia) 12:38, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
You mean with NPOV we would mention the convicted people, ignoring the well-known massacre? One could argue that from the point of History of Justice the conviction process was more important than the event, but the user did nothing to put the listing in such context. Also, I suppose the edit was by a long time acquaintance of ours, using a throw-away account as usual.
LPfi (talk) 13:13, 18 May 2021 (UTC)
Return to the user page of "SHB2000/Archive 2021".